Secondary double glazing
Filed under Insulation, Window Insulation.
May 18th, 2009
Hi,
What is the consensus around secondary glazing. It is a whole lot cheaper than double glazing but how effective is it?
Been looking at these guys websites: http://www.magicseal.com/ http://www.magnetite.co.nz/page.asp?pID=234
Aaryn
23 Comments
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Richard Moore, June 28th, 2009 on 11:31 am
Heh, try this, I did the 35m2 of curtain wall glass (1.4m high 28m long) in my 1000sqm living space with big bubble bubblewrap from snell packaging, The 50m roll cost $50 and I have more than a third left, Only took an hour to install with the kids. Its like a see thru thermal curatin that lets the sun in when its closed….And while we are on the easy do’s if you have a gas fireplace with the flu going all the way up a brick chimney investigate getting some old ducting and ducting the heat out of the chimney stack thats heated by the flu and through in your attic space to where you want heat most then put a computer fan on the end to get the air moving into that cold damp bedroom or whatever. Leaving the Chiney stack I get 100 degrees C air and at the fan outlet after a run of 10m that I haven’t bothered to insulate yet, its still 36 degrees. More low cost technologies from the team that brought the Wellington region award winning thicker warmer recycled polystyrene palace planks (plug plug). Cheers
RichardPeter, July 13th, 2009 on 10:38 pm
I agree with Glen’s comments about secondary double glazing vs installing actual double glazed units. It is only too easy to waste money on temporary fixes.
All the same, secondary double glazing ARE a fix, and it is severe to state that if ‘they are not completely sealed this means they are not working properly.’ By definition, adding *anything* to a few mm thick single pane of annealed glass will help (except, of course, if it renders the window inoperable).
Catherine, October 11th, 2009 on 12:54 am
We’ve had Magnetite panels installed in our place and they have really worked a charm. We have large wooden windows, and we wanted thermal insulation. The guys installed the panels on the inside of the frame, which means we have about 8 cm between the new and old windows. It has made a very noticeable difference to the comfort level of our home. Most notable is the draft-reduction, now when the wind blows, our curtains don’t!
As for fogging, its been 18 months we have never had any problems – in fact the condensation reduction is incredible.
Also, because they are removable, we can take them off in summer when we don’t need the extra insulation.
Lois Easton, February 22nd, 2010 on 11:32 pm
We part funded a student who recently did some testing of performance of secondary glazing systems – and they did jolly well. Actually the plastic window kits (an alternative to bubble wrap) did really well also – and they cost about $50 to do an entire house.
Secondary glazing (acrylic or glass) is really widely used overseas – and has some pluses in terms of noise abatement also. Essentially it’s a cost decision. They cost about $250 per m2 whereas to retrofit double glazing in your existing frames costs about $350 per m2. And of course if you have a character house with wooden windows, then unless you can afford to retrofit double glazing in your existing wooden frames secondary glazing starts to look like a very effective option that maintains the character of your home.
As a long term consideration however, now that the Building Code makes double glazing effectively mandatory in much of NZ, fully double glazing your home is likely to be a better long term investment decision than using secondary glazing.
double glazing birmingham, March 2nd, 2010 on 4:05 am
One advantage of double glazing is for extra sound proofing,consider a different thickness of glass to the existing glass, different thicknesses cut out different wave lengths giving improved noise reduction.
PLASTICFAB1, March 4th, 2010 on 5:57 am
please see our website or us out on trade me under PLASTICFAB1
We sell 30 year warranty plexiglas for diy installers of secondary glazing
Double Glazing Birmingham, April 17th, 2010 on 2:24 pm
Well, for me, by burning less fuel you will not only save money on the running costs of your home but you will also be lessening the CO2 footprint of your property. It could be argued that by installing double glazing you will be doing your “bit” to help save the planet.
Duncan McDonald, April 28th, 2010 on 3:47 am
Who are we?
Kristalbond specialise in providing an alternative to retrofit double glazing for existing windows. Without the need to replace any parts of the aluminium joinery, Kristalbond is the smart alternative. With a U-Value of 3.46 and a R-Value of 0.29 it gives you similar insulation as a 4/6/4 double glazed unit. It also blocks 99% of damaging UV rays.
How does it work?
Kristalbond is a crystal clear liquid coating that chemically bonds to the inside surface of the glass without the use of adhesives. No matter how severe the weather is Kristalbond will not peel, blister or bubble and is non-toxic after it is applied. Unlike film, Kristalbond is also a self-levelling liquid which means the coating will be seamless and therefore is no limit to the size of the area it can be applied.
The Market
The New Zealand Building Code requires improved thermal performances in all new houses and all major extensions to existing houses. This is great for those who are building or renovating in this economic time, but what about those who are now wanting to be energy efficient in their homes but do not want to replace their joinery or canÂ’t afford to. Kristalbond has now filled this void. Every home owner, business owner and building owner is a potential customer.
Our Mission
To allow every house owner the opportunity to enjoy the benefits of improving the thermal performance and UV protection Kristalbond can offer, at a price that is affordable. In doing so, we endeavour to provide a service that meets and exceeds our customersÂ’ expectations.
Give us a call: 0508574782
Warren M, April 30th, 2010 on 7:38 pm
Hello Aaryn
We have had secondry glazing fitted to our home magicseal.com and I can tell you that it’s well worth every dollar we have paid, one of the best things I ever did,turn the heater down low and feel the warmth and also blocks out uv rays and keeps the house cool in the hot summer also we have had no scratch problems and a cleaning kit by magicseal we also got.I believe that this product is a 10out10
editor, May 3rd, 2010 on 4:12 am
Hi Duncan,
We understand that the Kristalbond product is applied with a sponge in a layer 6 microns (0.006mm) thick. I have spoken with some experts in the building research industry, who were doubtful that such a small layer of Kristalbond could substantially increase the R value as stated above.
Could you confirm whether the R0.29 quoted on the kristalbond website refers to a 6 micron layer added to existing 6 mm glass, or to a 6mm thickness of the Kristalbond product itself?
We understand that the product is currently undergoing appraisal from building research scientists in Australia, and we would be most interested to hear the results when they become available.
Sarah Free, energy advisor, Wellington region
Duncan McDonald, May 6th, 2010 on 6:13 am
Hi Sarah,
Thanks for your interest. Kristalbond has been tested to ISO 8990 by Sirim QAS International who is a very large testing company overeas. We are currently getting these tests confirmed by the Uni of NSW who will verify these results. Yes it is very hard to believe that this coating is able to do as we say but this product has been international since 2002 and has a huge amount of recognition in other parts of the world. We wanted to bring this technology to New Zealand where we have a major problem with UV along with making insulation affordable to every New Zealander.
Kristalbond is used by companies overseas like KFC, Lexus and Starbucks to name a few. These companies I am sure would not look at KB if there was not some truth to the results we currently have
When these results are available I will be more than happy to share them with you.
Warwick, September 17th, 2010 on 9:52 am
Have the results regarding Kristalbond come in yet?
Duncan McDonald, November 16th, 2010 on 4:01 am
Hi Warwick
Sorry for the delay but unfortunately things do take time. Currently we have had all tests done and have been sent to the USA for inclusion on the IGDB (international Glazing Data Base). From here we will be applying for a WERS rating. Unfortunately I am unable to give a time frame on this but as soon as I have this through I will be posting the results.Mark V, December 2nd, 2010 on 7:33 am
HI Duncan – I believe that KB is good for reducing sun fade – but not as effective as double-glazing to eliminate condensation ?
Duncan McDonald, December 6th, 2010 on 1:22 am
Hi Mark – No, you are correct. It must be pointed out though that condensation or moisture is attracted to the coolest part of the house, hense why you get it on windows and in some cases the walls that are not insulated. This is one of the reasons for mould on walls that are not insulated.
If you were to “eliminate” condensation from your windows then that moisture must go somewhere else in your house. Kristalbond reduces condensation but will not eliminate it. I must say here that to retrofit will also not eliminate condensation as the aluminium frame has no thermal break so you will still get water on your sills.
My suggestion is to install a DVS type system or dehumidifier to remove moisture. IRetrofit double glazing
will not remove moisture from your home but will move it from the windows.John Griffin, January 22nd, 2011 on 10:06 pm
Hello everyone,
Duncan has mentioned that condensation will still be attracted to the frame yet with the Magnetite inside mount system, we not only insulate the glass area yet we also insulated the entire window including the frame. This gives you great insulation value and draft proofing and also with this mounting system you will achive great accoustic value. We speacilise in thermal and accoustic at the same time other benefits like draft prooffing UV protection with better performance than standard double glazing.
With the fogging issue, depending on the state of your exsisting windows will determine the concerns in this area, yet we look closely at this as just a small amount of silicon can do wonders. A magnet seal is one of the best seals in the world…
Please remeber that if moisture does get in, the most wonderful thing is, is that our panels can be removed with ease to sort the problem out, yet with standard double glazing, this would have to be replaced…Please contact us anytime for a free measure and quote, as we inform all customers most options for them, as there is much to inform them…
Thanks
John GWalter D, March 10th, 2011 on 10:23 pm
Hi Duncan,
Have the test result being published that can be reviewed. We are very interested in this non intrusive method of double glazing..
WD
Cindy, August 1st, 2011 on 12:46 pm
Hi Duncan – KRISTALBOND,
Any results? Please share. It’s been 15 months and we are still waiting…..
Gayle Dickson, August 15th, 2011 on 10:11 pm
@Richard Moore – can you please tell me more about the bubblewrap you did? I am at a loss to understand how it would work, but keen to find out more!
Duncan McDonald, August 21st, 2011 on 7:50 am
Good morning Cindy
The new results are not yet allowed to be published but I can say that we have been accepted onto the IGDB (International Glazing Data Base). From here we have applied to WERS for a star rating and then the world is our oyster. I have seen the results and can say they have performed better than the ones from 2008. A UV test was carried out in Australia and it came back with a factor of over +348 which is outstanding.
I have tried publishing information but one comment regarding problems that have arisen within the retrofit area has been blocked which is diappointing as I feel it is important that the consumer should be aware of the potential problems assosiated with retrofitting in Aluminium and now timber.
sarah, August 22nd, 2011 on 10:34 am
Hi Gayle,
I contacted Richard Moore ( of Poly Palace) to let him know that you were interested in additional information about the bubble wrap. He advised that he had used it to insulate a very long single glazed window, approximately 13m long and 1.6 m high. He used thin slats of wood ( trellis lengths would do) which he positioned over the wrap and then screwed to the frame. He used the wrap with the largest bubbles as it was the most transparent, and with the wrap well stretched you could still see out of the window somewhat. However, he takes the wrap down and stores it after the worst of the cold weather is over. You could probably just tape the wrap to the glass or frame, but you might risk some minor damage to paintwork and the wrap when you remove it.
He purchased the wrap from Snell packaging in Seaview (a wholesale supplier) but for smaller amounts you could probably get ait at regular packaging or stationery suppliers.
Cheers,
Sarah, Energy advisor, Sustainability Trust, WellingtonNeil - Bourne End UK ex Auckland, May 18th, 2012 on 1:32 am
Team
We live in the UK at the moment and have applied both secondary glazing & bubble wrap to our windows with excellent results. With temps down to -11, both systems allowed us to reduce our heating cost by about 15% when compared to previous years with single glazing on all windows.The secondary glazing is simply an aluminium frame & window placed inside the existing wooden window sill with an air gap of about 40mm. The aluminium window slides open for cleaning when required. Prior to fitting the secondary glazing, the windows suffered from a significant amount of condensation. Once fitted with SG, there has been no condensation at all over a period of two years on the down stairs windows (colder) & only minimum condensation upstairs (warmer).
The bubble wrap was fitted as a joke but proved remarkable effective especially when the edges are fully sealed with tape and limit any convectional movement of air against the outside windows. It was telling that imediatley upon removing the Bubble Wrap for the summer, it had been in place all winter, the outside windows immediately fogged up; there had been not condensation throughout a long, wet & cold winter.
We wont be fitting bubble wrap to our windows when we get back to Auckland, but I can attest to the fact that it does work. We may fit secondary glazing but that seems to work the best with in wooded frames with an exiting thermal break. The above are low tech solutions that work. The best solution is to insulate the house, roof & walls and provide ISO standard double glazing units in frames with a thermal break. If you can’t afford that, then think about the above.
Regards
Neil Spencer CE proof
Glen, May 25th, 2009 on 2:30 am
Hi Aaryn,
Personally I would stay away from the secondry glazing. No companies that offer the product will guarantee that they will not fog up in the middle as they are not a completely sealed unit. And as they are not completely sealed this means they are not working properly. They also scratch easy. I had some done at a previous house and ended up getting it changed again. It was cheaper to replace the unit with new “actual double glazed” units. Also get a quote for complete replacement (frames also) as sometimes it is not alot more to do so.